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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s the frequency, Kenneth?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/</link>
	<description>Where technology meets anthropology, conservation and development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:29:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ken Banks</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-7865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-7865</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/twitter/jamesbt&quot;&gt;@jamesbt&lt;/a&gt; I&amp;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/s/39&quot;&gt;#39&lt;/a&gt;;ve been curious about P2P/HF radio/local communications needs for a while. Might be of interest: http://is.gd/dp63g&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content"><a href="http://topsy.com/twitter/jamesbt">@jamesbt</a> I&#038;<a href="http://topsy.com/s/39">#39</a>;ve been curious about P2P/HF radio/local communications needs for a while. Might be of interest: <a href="http://is.gd/dp63g" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/dp63g</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: George Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-1494</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-1494</guid>
		<description>We are just in the process of finalizing the roll out of our rural IP communications network starting in Botswana. It is a mixture of microwave and local cell with HF Radio.

The crucial aspect here is the HF which currently handles between 512k and 2Mb over distances up-to 1000 miles. The next version of this system will break the 2 meg barrier and be about the size of a large 2 way hand held radio. The network will eventually span from the DRC to the Cape and East coast to West with the emphasis upon the rural areas where the majority of populations reside but are not served and will back haul to a 10Gbps satellite earth station we are constructing here with possible out stations in other countries.

Just thought you may be in interested to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are just in the process of finalizing the roll out of our rural IP communications network starting in Botswana. It is a mixture of microwave and local cell with HF Radio.</p>
<p>The crucial aspect here is the HF which currently handles between 512k and 2Mb over distances up-to 1000 miles. The next version of this system will break the 2 meg barrier and be about the size of a large 2 way hand held radio. The network will eventually span from the DRC to the Cape and East coast to West with the emphasis upon the rural areas where the majority of populations reside but are not served and will back haul to a 10Gbps satellite earth station we are constructing here with possible out stations in other countries.</p>
<p>Just thought you may be in interested to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Konzett</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Konzett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-234</guid>
		<description>Was using bushmail 3 years ago in Malawi ... nice experience :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was using bushmail 3 years ago in Malawi &#8230; nice experience <img src='http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Walky Talkie</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>Walky Talkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Ten square kilometer is not bad at all. It looks pretty neat as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ten square kilometer is not bad at all. It looks pretty neat as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Banks</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-2471</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-2471</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/twitter/patrickmeier&quot;&gt;@patrickmeier&lt;/a&gt; Thanks Patrick - glad you like it! There&#039;s another post on my own blog, slightly different angle. http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/kiwanja/status/1132684272&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/tb/www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/&quot;&gt;Topsy page&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content"><a href="http://topsy.com/twitter/patrickmeier">@patrickmeier</a> Thanks Patrick &#8211; glad you like it! There&#8217;s another post on my own blog, slightly different angle. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/kiwanja/status/1132684272">Original tweet</a>, <a href="http://topsy.com/tb/www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/">Topsy page</a>]</div>
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		<title>By: kiwanja</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-7443</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwanja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-7443</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/twitter/patrickmeier&quot;&gt;@patrickmeier&lt;/a&gt; Thanks Patrick - glad you like it! There&#039;s another post on my own blog, slightly different angle. http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content"><a href="http://topsy.com/twitter/patrickmeier">@patrickmeier</a> Thanks Patrick &#8211; glad you like it! There&#8217;s another post on my own blog, slightly different angle. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: kiwanja</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwanja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, guys

@steve - There&#039;s clearly a few options available, all of which have their upsides and downsides. I&#039;ll take a wider/longer look at some of the options you highlight - thanks for those. I&#039;m familiar with HF and, because of some of the issues didn&#039;t think it would be something that could be quickly and easily adopted (as your comments confirm). I think a wider post (and rant!) might be merited covering these - maybe something you&#039;d consider writing? :) The main point for me is that, despite the challenges, there are alternatives to mobile and I don&#039;t see them being discussed too much

@chris I would guess that in places like San Francisco, and other major cities, the emergency services have their own communications networks. One thing which emerged from the London terrorists bombings a couple of years ago was the lack of emergency communications infrastructure in the London Underground - mobiles didn&#039;t work, and where they did the network was severely congested. A new network was rolled out only last week to cover this (but I&#039;m not sure what technology they used)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, guys</p>
<p>@steve &#8211; There&#8217;s clearly a few options available, all of which have their upsides and downsides. I&#8217;ll take a wider/longer look at some of the options you highlight &#8211; thanks for those. I&#8217;m familiar with HF and, because of some of the issues didn&#8217;t think it would be something that could be quickly and easily adopted (as your comments confirm). I think a wider post (and rant!) might be merited covering these &#8211; maybe something you&#8217;d consider writing? <img src='http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  The main point for me is that, despite the challenges, there are alternatives to mobile and I don&#8217;t see them being discussed too much</p>
<p>@chris I would guess that in places like San Francisco, and other major cities, the emergency services have their own communications networks. One thing which emerged from the London terrorists bombings a couple of years ago was the lack of emergency communications infrastructure in the London Underground &#8211; mobiles didn&#8217;t work, and where they did the network was severely congested. A new network was rolled out only last week to cover this (but I&#8217;m not sure what technology they used)</p>
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		<title>By: Coby</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Coby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 02:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-149</guid>
		<description>Good stuff.  I have been playing with open-mesh routers for a while now - similar concept to Mesh Potato but I do like the idea of integrated voice.

Chris, I have been on the edges of a couple debates re Public Safety Networks in the US.  It is both technical and political for sure and I claim no expertise.  This post is an overview of some of the recent issues http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080627-nypd-cities-slam-fcc-block-d-public-safety-network-dream.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff.  I have been playing with open-mesh routers for a while now &#8211; similar concept to Mesh Potato but I do like the idea of integrated voice.</p>
<p>Chris, I have been on the edges of a couple debates re Public Safety Networks in the US.  It is both technical and political for sure and I claim no expertise.  This post is an overview of some of the recent issues <a href="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080627-nypd-cities-slam-fcc-block-d-public-safety-network-dream.html" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080627-nypd-cities-slam-fcc-block-d-public-safety-network-dream.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Blow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-148</guid>
		<description>I should specify that I am currently in San Francisco, USA -- so I am referring to a very different situation than you are. But a significant crisis will put even this ultra-networked city into a very bush-like state when it comes to sending email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should specify that I am currently in San Francisco, USA &#8212; so I am referring to a very different situation than you are. But a significant crisis will put even this ultra-networked city into a very bush-like state when it comes to sending email.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Blow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Excellent writeup Ken, thanks. 

It seems that this would be especially useful for ad-hoc networks in places where the communications infrastructure actually crashes during a natural disaster, is suppressed for political reasons, or is overloaded with concerned-caller traffic. 

I also would be interested in hearing about any work that has been done in this area -- surely my local fire department has some plan for network connectivity without AT&amp;T?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent writeup Ken, thanks. </p>
<p>It seems that this would be especially useful for ad-hoc networks in places where the communications infrastructure actually crashes during a natural disaster, is suppressed for political reasons, or is overloaded with concerned-caller traffic. </p>
<p>I also would be interested in hearing about any work that has been done in this area &#8212; surely my local fire department has some plan for network connectivity without AT&amp;T?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Song</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Song</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-145</guid>
		<description>Hi Ken,

I think you&#039;re on the right track in looking at the potential of commodity wireless technologies.  I also think you&#039;re right that most phone calls are local.  I have a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to this effect and some research papers (which I can send you) from a few different countries.  Enough to convince me that this is true, in varying degrees.  The real data is with the mobile operators though and they aren&#039;t sharing.  As an aside, I wrote to Jan Chipchase to see if he might share some evidence but no dice.  I imagine Nokia have to sign an NDA to get access to the mobile operators&#039; data.  If the majority of calls are local, this knowledge is exciting because it opens up just the kind of opportunities you suggest.  However, I&#039;m not betting on walkie-talkies (although I&#039;ve certainly been wrong before).  So let me touch on the technologies you suggest and then propose another one.

HF Radio.  Bushmail is a very cool solution that uses HF or shortwave radio frequencies to span substantial distances.  They aren&#039;t the first to set up this kind of solution.  BushNet in Uganda was delivering HF voice and data solutions into rural Uganda and the DRC as far back as 8 years ago (I think) using Codan radios.  The upside is that you can go just about anywhere but the downside is that the equipment is still expensive and you are very limited in terms of bandwidth &lt; 2400 bps so that you can trickle data through.  Works for text emails though.  The most annoying thing is that HF is licensed frequency and every user needs a license.  In most countries the bureaucracy is likely to be more annoying than the application fee and the yearly renewal feel.

Walkie-Talkie.  In Africa, Walkie-Talkies fall into the Personal Mobile Radio category which uses Ultra High Frequency (UHF) spectrum.  Devices under half a watt in power don&#039;t require a license.  In flat countryside, you can get a minimum of a couple of kilometres from point to point, possibly more as you suggest.  The plus side of this technology is that it is cheap, simple to use, and very flexible.  There are even some people connecting these radios to the Internet, not legally I suspect though.  There are a few downsides.  First, you have no privacy. Anyone can listen to your conversation if they want to.  Second, you can transcend space but not time by which I mean there is no voicemail where people could pick up messages at their convenience.  Finally, these radios are never going to handle data.  The only interface you have with them is a sound jack.  This can be connected to the sound card of a PC and the audio encoded for transmission over the Internet.  I suspect the reverse is not true though, that it would be very difficult to use a walkie-talkie as a modem to connect to another PC equipped with a walkie-talkie.  Bandwidth is about the same as HF.

So what else? Well, in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://villagetelco.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Village Telco&lt;/a&gt; project we are betting on meshed WiFi.  Mesh WiFi can offer all of the coverage of Walkie-Talkies (thanks to the magic of the mesh) but also deliver IP-based voice and broadband data which can start with simple person-to-person voice calls and voicemail but scale to full-blown Internet services and interconnection to the PSTN.  Instead of a WalkieTalkie, a user would have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.villagetelco.org/mesh-potato/mesh-potato-faq/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mesh Potato&lt;/a&gt;, which is a low-cost wireless access point and phone interface in one.  We expect the retail price of the Mesh Potato will be about the same as a WalkieTalkie.  Any plain old telephone can then be plugged into a Mesh Potato.

I think this all points to the fact that what is needed is more unlicensed spectrum, more space for innovative solutions to emerge in.  I think the &lt;a href=&quot;http://manypossibilities.net/2008/11/wifi-on-steroids-approved-in-us/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;White Spaces&lt;/a&gt; spectrum approved by the FCC in November in the United States offers real possibilities for rural connectivity and there ought to be a White Spaces lobby in every developing country... but that is a longer rant.  :-)

Cheers... Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ken,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re on the right track in looking at the potential of commodity wireless technologies.  I also think you&#8217;re right that most phone calls are local.  I have a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to this effect and some research papers (which I can send you) from a few different countries.  Enough to convince me that this is true, in varying degrees.  The real data is with the mobile operators though and they aren&#8217;t sharing.  As an aside, I wrote to Jan Chipchase to see if he might share some evidence but no dice.  I imagine Nokia have to sign an NDA to get access to the mobile operators&#8217; data.  If the majority of calls are local, this knowledge is exciting because it opens up just the kind of opportunities you suggest.  However, I&#8217;m not betting on walkie-talkies (although I&#8217;ve certainly been wrong before).  So let me touch on the technologies you suggest and then propose another one.</p>
<p>HF Radio.  Bushmail is a very cool solution that uses HF or shortwave radio frequencies to span substantial distances.  They aren&#8217;t the first to set up this kind of solution.  BushNet in Uganda was delivering HF voice and data solutions into rural Uganda and the DRC as far back as 8 years ago (I think) using Codan radios.  The upside is that you can go just about anywhere but the downside is that the equipment is still expensive and you are very limited in terms of bandwidth &lt; 2400 bps so that you can trickle data through.  Works for text emails though.  The most annoying thing is that HF is licensed frequency and every user needs a license.  In most countries the bureaucracy is likely to be more annoying than the application fee and the yearly renewal feel.</p>
<p>Walkie-Talkie.  In Africa, Walkie-Talkies fall into the Personal Mobile Radio category which uses Ultra High Frequency (UHF) spectrum.  Devices under half a watt in power don&#8217;t require a license.  In flat countryside, you can get a minimum of a couple of kilometres from point to point, possibly more as you suggest.  The plus side of this technology is that it is cheap, simple to use, and very flexible.  There are even some people connecting these radios to the Internet, not legally I suspect though.  There are a few downsides.  First, you have no privacy. Anyone can listen to your conversation if they want to.  Second, you can transcend space but not time by which I mean there is no voicemail where people could pick up messages at their convenience.  Finally, these radios are never going to handle data.  The only interface you have with them is a sound jack.  This can be connected to the sound card of a PC and the audio encoded for transmission over the Internet.  I suspect the reverse is not true though, that it would be very difficult to use a walkie-talkie as a modem to connect to another PC equipped with a walkie-talkie.  Bandwidth is about the same as HF.</p>
<p>So what else? Well, in the <a href="http://villagetelco.org" rel="nofollow">Village Telco</a> project we are betting on meshed WiFi.  Mesh WiFi can offer all of the coverage of Walkie-Talkies (thanks to the magic of the mesh) but also deliver IP-based voice and broadband data which can start with simple person-to-person voice calls and voicemail but scale to full-blown Internet services and interconnection to the PSTN.  Instead of a WalkieTalkie, a user would have a <a href="http://www.villagetelco.org/mesh-potato/mesh-potato-faq/" rel="nofollow">Mesh Potato</a>, which is a low-cost wireless access point and phone interface in one.  We expect the retail price of the Mesh Potato will be about the same as a WalkieTalkie.  Any plain old telephone can then be plugged into a Mesh Potato.</p>
<p>I think this all points to the fact that what is needed is more unlicensed spectrum, more space for innovative solutions to emerge in.  I think the <a href="http://manypossibilities.net/2008/11/wifi-on-steroids-approved-in-us/" rel="nofollow">White Spaces</a> spectrum approved by the FCC in November in the United States offers real possibilities for rural connectivity and there ought to be a White Spaces lobby in every developing country&#8230; but that is a longer rant.  <img src='http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers&#8230; Steve</p>
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		<title>By: changefeed</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/comment-page-1/#comment-2472</link>
		<dc:creator>changefeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/?p=756#comment-2472</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;-&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/twitter/kiwanja&quot;&gt;@kiwanja&lt;/a&gt;: What&amp;&lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/s?q=%238217&quot;&gt;#8217&lt;/a&gt;;s the frequency, Kenneth? http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx&lt;/span&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;topsy_trackback_links&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/changefeed/status/1129971951&quot;&gt;Original tweet&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://topsy.com/tb/www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/&quot;&gt;Topsy page&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">-&gt;<a href="http://topsy.com/twitter/kiwanja">@kiwanja</a>: What&#038;<a href="http://topsy.com/s?q=%238217">#8217</a>;s the frequency, Kenneth? <a href="http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/9lxawx</a></span></p>
<div class="topsy_trackback_links">[<a href="http://twitter.com/changefeed/status/1129971951">Original tweet</a>, <a href="http://topsy.com/tb/www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/01/whats-the-frequency-kenneth/">Topsy page</a>]</div>
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